RedZone Technologies Podcast: Episode 121 with Patrick Sweeney Transcript

00:00
so welcome you to the show all right so
00:03
um all right so this is a very very
00:07
special guest today that I have actually
00:09
known with a 30 years ago
00:10
damn isn't that crazy 25 at least yeah
00:14
yeah 25 at least we can stick with 20 so
00:18
I know a lot of your back story but my
00:19
audience doesn't and so I love let's
00:23
let's go back well go back as far as you
00:25
want but I would like at least like to
00:27
start at UNH but you know I know you
00:31
have some stories that go a little bit
00:33
further back and and I just want people
00:35
to understand where you're coming from
00:36
because even though I've introduced you
00:39
a few minutes ago you know you come from
00:41
both athletic background
00:44
not necessarily immigrant but influenced
00:46
generation Irish immigrant parents yeah
00:48
I mean that blue-collar area of Boston
00:50
no doubt has an influence business and
00:53
all that so but let's just start the
00:55
beginning so you know born and raised in
00:59
Belmont Mass which at the time was
01:01
either Irish or Italian right and and
01:03
Irish Catholic and you know when we used
01:06
to play baseball together my baseball
01:07
team and in Belmont was Johnny Fitz
01:10
fitzy haba zone Sully Sully and Sully
01:15
and then Murph and it wasn't where
01:18
you're from it was what parish right so
01:20
that was the the kind of the whole Irish
01:22
Catholic upbringing and as dysfunctional
01:26
as it was you know nostalgic to look
01:29
back on right now and then moved around
01:32
a little bit and
01:34
so your parents came over from my dad so
01:37
my dad I was born in the States
01:39
yeah and then they went back when he was
01:40
a little kid and then came back my mom's
01:43
mom emigrated to Newfoundland okay came
01:47
down from Newfoundland and so it was a
01:49
good story my whole family's the region
01:52
is duneagle
01:53
the western coast of Ireland which is my
01:55
family's beautiful which NAT Nat Geo
01:57
just named one of the most beautiful
01:59
places in the world yeah yeah when I was
02:02
over in in in Ireland and 78 that was
02:06
when there was a lot of lot of trouble
02:08
so yeah so we were in Belfast at the
02:10
time and you know tanks and and it's
02:13
changed quite a bit that yeah you know
02:14
since then they checkpoints yeah talk
02:17
about you know we're gonna talk about
02:18
some of the PTSD and stuff my
02:20
grandfather there you know he was one of
02:23
sixteen kids seeing guns and people
02:25
getting shot it's like no doubt we sent
02:28
him over the edge and we had to leave
02:29
the city pretty quickly
02:30
absolutely yeah it's just no doubt it
02:32
forms the influence of the the Northeast
02:34
and that well you know that's one of the
02:36
things I talked about in the book bill
02:37
is that we make 70 to 80 percent of our
02:40
decisions subconsciously and we do it
02:43
based on something neuroscientists
02:45
called prior beliefs and your prior
02:47
beliefs are basically your experiences
02:49
but the really up thing is we
02:52
don't create that database alright
02:54
somebody else creates it for us and your
02:56
grandfather's a great example yes yes he
02:58
didn't choose we was born he didn't
03:00
choose how many brothers and sisters he
03:01
had he didn't choose what language he
03:03
speaks he didn't choose his religion he
03:05
didn't choose the color of his skin
03:07
but all those things became his tribe
03:09
then he identified with so unless he did
03:13
something to enhance that database which
03:15
most people never really have the the
03:18
consciousness to do then his tribe is
03:20
going to be the only thing that won't
03:22
set off his amygdala that won't create
03:24
these fear responses and that that's at
03:26
the root essentially of any war of any
03:29
conflict and that's so that so I
03:32
actually haven't had this conversation
03:33
with anybody except I don't think one
03:35
other person but veer I think that's an
03:38
area that in your research how much of
03:41
the past like we have the generation of
03:43
grandfather or father grandfather maybe
03:46
great-grandfather
03:47
but there's potentially you know just
03:49
picking on Ireland it's a windswept
03:51
island in the middle of nowhere and
03:53
we're just talking about two generations
03:55
back what about eighteen seventeen
03:57
sixteen hundreds and how much of that
03:59
those patterns are we just like we just
04:03
have them but we're not conscious of
04:05
them is there any there's there's tons
04:07
of new research about that and and I'd
04:10
say we've got three layers that are
04:12
really critical first is just in genetic
04:14
right why anyone should ever be afraid
04:17
of snakes in Ireland
04:18
makes no sense right because one st.
04:22
Patrick got rid of all of them so
04:24
there's there are zero deaths every year
04:27
in Ireland from snake bites right zero
04:29
deaths yeah but but you'll find 2030
04:32
percent of the population is terrified
04:34
of snakes
04:34
that's totally genetic right that's
04:36
that's written in the DNA and then
04:38
that's why it's there and that's that's
04:39
where snakes and spiders and sharks and
04:43
other irrational thoughts right if you
04:45
if you look at just statistics we should
04:47
really be afraid of cars that's what
04:49
should terrify us because that's where
04:50
all the deaths are the second thing is
04:52
within a single generation parents can
04:56
pass on fears to their offspring
04:58
it's called epigenetics so parents can
05:01
actually influence and rewrite your
05:04
genetics and most people don't realize
05:05
it happens that quickly so it's quick to
05:08
change it's not at all fast to get rid
05:10
of that's why Irish people are still
05:12
afraid of snakes and then and then
05:14
lastly how we populate our own database
05:18
can influence it so those are sort of
05:20
the three big influences and and the
05:22
ability one of the biggest takeaways I'd
05:24
leave especially for leaders in
05:26
companies is trying to replace judgment
05:30
with curiosity and and one of the
05:33
easiest examples is you know if you took
05:37
my dad or your dad into Starbucks and
05:40
you see some kid who looks like he's a
05:42
victim of a drive-by piercing right and
05:45
you're your old man mate say cheese look
05:47
at what the is wrong with him and
05:49
and what you'd find is he's judging
05:52
based on his tribe and when you do that
05:55
you literally use half your brain really
05:57
so so the brain
05:59
is the the most energy hungry organ in
06:02
the body it's 5% of the body but it uses
06:04
20% of our energy so what we try to do
06:08
is create these shortcuts called valence
06:10
so when we some see something like that
06:12
that Pearce kid
06:14
the Pearce barista in Starbucks we're
06:17
out that immediately to the right side
06:19
of our brain and just use the right
06:20
hemisphere to decide that that kids bad
06:23
so basically if you go back to the when
06:26
we were trying to survive a couple
06:28
million years ago and the software on
06:30
our amygdala our fear Center was written
06:32
we want to judge within a fraction of a
06:35
second if I want to kill you or if I
06:37
want to mate with you
06:38
yeah right and and that's basically it
06:40
so how can we get the genes to the next
06:42
generation so in order to do that we've
06:44
had these shortcuts called valence now
06:46
if we can't just tell that v-a-l-e nce
06:49
and see okay so if we can stop and and
06:53
say okay wait a minute I just said you
06:55
know the kid looks really messed up
06:57
because he's got all those piercings
06:58
what can I find admirable about that
07:02
mm-hmm
07:02
and you think for a second and as soon
07:04
as you start to think as soon as you
07:06
start that process you you light up the
07:08
other hemisphere in your brain so now
07:10
you're literally twice as smart you're
07:12
literally using twice the the processing
07:14
power in your brain and so when you stop
07:16
and try and think that's an awful
07:19
question with with curiosity you might
07:21
say well he's probably got a great
07:23
threshold for pain because I could never
07:25
put one of those little things up in my
07:26
eyelid like that and he's probably
07:29
incredibly self-confident because he
07:30
doesn't care what people think about him
07:31
so I really admire that about about that
07:34
guy and then when you go up to him
07:35
you're gonna have a much different
07:36
interaction because now you admire the
07:38
guy instead of thinking he's a freak
07:40
because he's not part of your tribe so
07:42
so what do I like about so do you can
07:45
you train that part of the brain like a
07:47
muscle so if for example an email that
07:52
comes in or like just what we're
07:53
involved right now with that with the
07:54
virus situations yeah yeah can we train
07:57
the brain to to beat get in front of it
08:00
like can we actually coach it yeah so
08:03
you you have to consciously be aware of
08:05
that and one of the stories I tell in
08:06
the book is a guy named Ray Dalio who
08:09
one of the richest men in the world I
08:11
think he's worth like 20 billion dollars
08:13
the CEO of Bridgewater and he's got a
08:15
great way of doing it he found out by
08:17
trial and error and lost absolutely
08:20
everything you know became this
08:21
superstar on Wall Street and then he
08:23
said he asked to testify in front of
08:26
Congress about the Mexican debt crisis
08:28
and he said look I've got all of my
08:29
money shorted you know we're selling
08:32
stock short we're putting everything in
08:34
cash I've got all my because I know the
08:36
markets gonna crash and the chairman of
08:38
the Fed who I think at the time was Alan
08:40
Greenspan said he said well how do you
08:43
know that he said because I'm an expert
08:45
I know it and sure enough the market
08:49
took off right Dahlia went out of
08:51
business lost millions of dollars he had
08:53
to borrow four grand from his dad to
08:55
start up the company again he said it
08:57
was the best experience he's ever had
08:59
because he went from saying I know I'm
09:02
right to asking himself how do I know
09:04
I'm right so he stopped when he he had
09:07
that initial feeling so you know he got
09:10
the initial gut reaction which is your
09:12
subconscious mind thinking so you're
09:15
using half your brain when you get it if
09:17
you have a lot of experience it's
09:18
oftentimes very good and very accurate
09:20
to do that that fast thinking but it's
09:23
much better if you can incorporate the
09:24
slow thinking as well and say okay
09:27
here's what I think the markets gonna
09:29
yank how do I know I'm right and then
09:31
what that forces you to do is it shuts
09:33
off the amygdala which is your
09:35
reactionary decisions that fight flight
09:37
or freeze mode yeah it opens up the
09:39
blood-brain barrier so you're actually
09:41
getting more processing power using both
09:43
sides of your brain so just simply
09:45
asking yourself how do I know I'm right
09:48
yeah or you know what can I find
09:50
admirable or what can I like about this
09:52
situation what's the benefit and and
09:55
being able to take that pause and take
09:58
that step back allows you to engage the
10:01
second half of your brain and start to
10:03
populate that subconscious database we
10:05
talked about of prior beliefs you can
10:07
start to publish to populate that on
10:10
your own you can become responsible for
10:12
your your subconscious thinking for your
10:14
own internal database instead of where
10:17
you were born or who your parents were
10:18
what teacher you had in first grade it's
10:21
almost like that you can't we can't use
10:23
that as an excuse anymore saying well
10:25
that's just you know
10:26
how I grew up right I mean if we are if
10:29
we if we want to go somewhere different
10:31
or be a different type of a leader that
10:33
it's we're almost like defaulting to
10:36
like a default pattern so so that
10:39
pattern that's a great point
10:40
Murph because the the pattern that
10:42
you're talking about is a defense
10:44
pattern so the amygdala which is our
10:47
fear center is the the amygdala is fully
10:50
developed actually in the third
10:51
trimester even before birth so at birth
10:54
we have the ability to fight to flight
10:58
or freeze so so we have defense
11:00
mechanisms from day one we have the
11:03
ability to learn how to survive because
11:05
that was the only thing that was
11:06
important that's why we programmed our
11:08
brain with this two million year old
11:10
piece of software sure and and so then
11:13
we have this other center called the the
11:16
courage center the SG ACC the sub genial
11:18
anterior cingulate cortex
11:20
nobody's ever heard of that people have
11:21
heard of the amygdala no one I would
11:24
agree with that because I do a lot of
11:25
reading and I have right here SG AC
11:27
courage yeah but that's brilliant
11:32
because it talked to me about it because
11:34
I'm really interested Migdal yeah a lot
11:37
of people earn more than the date but
11:39
they don't know the courage Center okay
11:41
and so the reason being Bill is is from
11:44
birth up until the age of about 20 22
11:47
years old that prefrontal cortex where
11:50
the SG ACC sits the adult supervision
11:53
that's not fully developed until we're
11:55
in our early 20s so eventually the first
11:59
20 years of our life our habit is
12:01
defense because that's all we've got
12:03
that's the only tool were equipped with
12:05
okay so we default to defense but in
12:08
reality all the potential is in the
12:11
present so all of our defense is based
12:13
on past history right we know that if we
12:15
stick our finger in our socket we're
12:17
getting shocked but they a PFC doesn't
12:19
come online till it's starting to come
12:21
online as a teenager okay in what's
12:23
called cold cognition if there's no
12:25
emotion involved so you can sit at
12:26
dinner with your teenagers and they seem
12:28
like a normal person seem like but as
12:30
soon as emotion gets involved it's
12:33
called hot cognition they lose the
12:35
connection and it starts becoming the
12:37
amygdala taking
12:38
okay so that's why a lot of parents
12:39
think well you know I sat down to dinner
12:41
and explained the the curfew and then
12:43
you know when he went out and his buddy
12:45
said they could stay out till 1:00 you
12:47
know he flipped out and it was like a
12:48
different kid well it's because there's
12:50
hot cognition cold cognition okay but
12:52
the important thing about the the
12:54
defaulting to defense is we do that
12:57
habitually but we don't have to so we
13:00
can find the we can find the potential
13:02
in the present by stopping and asking
13:04
those questions and stopping and
13:06
engaging the the brain and stepping back
13:09
from the situation to shut off the
13:11
amygdala this basically reprogramming
13:14
our brain for courage and for confidence
13:16
and it's so important for leaders
13:17
particularly you know in a field like IT
13:20
and an environment like this where the
13:23
pressures on them to make sure everyone
13:24
can work from home to make sure they're
13:26
staying innovative to make sure they're
13:28
they're satisfying all these different
13:30
stakeholders you know from sales to
13:31
operations to yeah all that stuff so if
13:34
you're if you're an IT guy in leadership
13:36
then this is hugely important
13:38
so is there I think what I think what
13:42
Jen what would be the pushback and I
13:45
just me pushback in that because I know
13:47
how hard it is to not be hijacked yeah
13:51
so I'd love that I mean hijacking yeah
13:53
so it's like it these are nanoseconds
13:56
and how do you become super aware so
13:59
that you can get in front of that
14:01
hijacking happenings because getting an
14:04
email if you're not super present
14:05
already yeah and you're just in the
14:07
momentum of the day all of a sudden the
14:09
momentum takes you in a certain path so
14:11
when you're not pretty you're gonna
14:12
regret later yes so do you have like a
14:14
strategy that some of the some leader
14:16
can get in front of it yeah so for sure
14:18
so the the the two ways that we make
14:21
decisions in life are either out of fear
14:24
or out of opportunity and if we make
14:26
decisions out of fear it's always going
14:29
to lead to regret to shame to failure
14:31
okay make decisions out of opportunity
14:33
that's gonna lead to growth to happiness
14:35
to success and to learning right that's
14:37
how you create a learning organization
14:39
is make those courageous choices on
14:41
opportunity what happens if you get in
14:43
that reactionary mode a lot of people
14:46
don't know it because they don't know
14:47
what happens to their body when when the
14:50
d'leh switches on so when the amygdala
14:52
switches on it's there for survival when
14:54
it activates that two-million-year-old
14:56
piece of software yeah it's an early
14:58
warning system for survival what it
15:00
wants to do is wake you up so it stops
15:03
doing anything unnecessary like
15:05
digestion and appropriation or feeling
15:07
empathy and it starts doing only what's
15:09
necessary to survive increases oxygen
15:12
and blood to your to your brain opens
15:14
your ears up so you can hear better you
15:16
can see better creates adrenaline DHEA
15:19
cortisol all these enzymes start
15:21
coursing through your body and you have
15:23
superhuman powers that's why if you've
15:24
ever been to a car accident yeah
15:26
everything looks like it's moving in
15:27
slow motion because you're taking in
15:29
twice as much detail as you normally do
15:31
because you're primed for superhuman
15:34
performance now if you can step back and
15:37
recognize when that's happening okay you
15:39
can use that to your advantage that the
15:41
observer you mentioned yeah exactly
15:43
so that you if you can step back and
15:45
feel that happening you can have
15:47
superhuman performance this is why it's
15:49
so important to scare yourself every day
15:51
because if you scare yourself on purpose
15:54
and you can observe what your body feels
15:57
like I call them the fear tells you no
15:59
it's like a poker player has these tells
16:01
when they get a good hand or a bad hand
16:03
these subconscious things that people
16:05
can pick up on the same thing happens
16:06
when we get scared so if you do
16:08
something that scares you let's say you
16:10
hate public speaking which they see it
16:12
with IT guys all the time I spoke at a
16:14
cio conference in September last year
16:16
and I called up five people on the stage
16:19
and my god you would have thought I put
16:20
you know like we were playing Russian
16:22
roulette or something they were so just
16:24
randomly called mob yeah we call them a
16:26
fun stage and it was it was terrifying
16:27
so so if that's you and you're listening
16:31
and you're afraid to public speak get up
16:33
one day when you go to lunch with all
16:35
your colleagues and make a toast and
16:37
when you get up and you you make
16:39
yourself do that notice what happens to
16:41
your body and you might feel butterflies
16:43
in your stomach or you might feel like a
16:45
lead balloon in your stomach or you
16:47
might feel your shoulders get tight or
16:48
or your heart start to beat fast your
16:51
your your breathing getting shallow
16:53
something like that when you start to
16:55
notice those tails then you'll notice
16:57
them during the week like when you get
16:59
that email all of a sudden you'll say
17:00
sure my legs shaking just like when I
17:02
made that toast now I'm gonna
17:04
I'm gonna be in a position where I can
17:06
either react your body you're saying the
17:09
body is in front of the feel in your
17:11
body okay so the totally in front of the
17:13
brain okay absolutely it's saying it to
17:15
Bill yeah that makes I and I have a
17:18
couple so I went I've been I've been
17:21
working on these triggers for a while
17:23
because it's been a it's been a problem
17:25
so I went to a lot of things but the the
17:29
thing that's made the biggest impact you
17:30
had a quote from a guy from a CEO in the
17:32
book that I I was like I knew exactly
17:34
where he's coming from because I went to
17:36
wim Hof's Kohl training in Poland and we
17:40
had a walk up the mouth he was going for
17:41
it yeah so and we sat in the cold and I
17:44
have a cold plunge in my house now and
17:46
and because doing one thing you're
17:48
afraid of everyday like people hate cold
17:50
I hate cold to this day so good for you
17:55
but the most important thing that I
17:57
learned was actually the breath work
17:59
that he taught yeah and he's just
18:01
stealing it from India and so my
18:02
breathing
18:03
yeah it's it's a it's an it's a it's a
18:05
in your book yeah what I liked is that
18:08
that CEO because I've done the the MBSR
18:11
the mindfulness you know that Jon
18:12
kabat-zinn like all its great but the
18:15
ultimate thing was I needed the body in
18:18
the coolness so then you can visualize
18:21
the the negative event or how you want
18:23
to navigate the negative event yeah and
18:25
settle into it and breathe but the
18:28
biggest thing was the breathing yeah and
18:29
so I loved you can explain and actually
18:32
your breathing stuff is not wim HOF yeah
18:34
which I thought was even it was greater
18:35
because I was like man this some new you
18:37
know so if you can explain your breath
18:39
thing because I think that for me was
18:41
the Gateway when that seat you on your
18:43
book that you quoted cyclist I but doing
18:45
this mindfulness meditation for a long
18:46
time it's very powerful yeah but your
18:49
stuff on the breath work to me that
18:50
shortened meditation from an hour to 10
18:52
minutes yeah and that's it you don't you
18:54
even like I do two minutes before I go
18:57
to bed and what I'm doing is basically
18:59
decompressing and downloading the the
19:01
day and then clearing off my clearing
19:03
everything in my mind and what's called
19:05
my working memory so I can sleep explain
19:07
that to people though because that's a
19:08
that's such a cool concept sure so here
19:09
I've got a morning routine I've got a
19:11
nighttime routine and part of my
19:12
nighttime routine is sitting in this
19:15
this position that I learned when I got
19:17
leukemia
19:18
had a yogi from this seek and she was a
19:23
yogi and Kundalini yogi okay she said if
19:26
you can do this one thing called bound
19:27
Lotus and basically you sit cross-legged
19:29
in a lotus and then you cross your arms
19:32
behind your back okay and you put your
19:34
forehead on the ground in in that
19:35
position where you what are your needs
19:37
are your needs are you cross crossing oh
19:39
really
19:41
that's quite good the idea is to open up
19:43
your hips and open up your shoulders and
19:45
open up your your knees all at the same
19:46
time and and so when I do that I go
19:50
through this four by four breathing and
19:52
so there's a couple breathing things I
19:54
mentioned the book but we'll talk about
19:55
this one first
19:56
it's basically pulling in for a count of
19:59
four holding for a count of four
20:01
breathing out for a count of four and
20:03
then holding out for a count of four and
20:05
they teach navy seals this at sniper
20:07
training camp Yogi's have been doing it
20:10
for years and basically you can think of
20:12
a box okay the seals call it box
20:13
breathing just doing that two minutes
20:16
every night and thinking about all this
20:19
stuff normally before I do I write down
20:21
everything I want to do the next day
20:22
right so I'll write down you know I've
20:25
got a podcast with Phil Murphy I've got
20:28
you know Good Morning America at 9:00
20:30
a.m. I want to bring up the the point
20:33
about you know this story that story and
20:35
I clear everything out of my mind then I
20:37
do the breathing and that's that's
20:39
literally I mean literally like five
20:41
minutes before you go to bed and I sleep
20:43
like a baby
20:43
so you're just okay that's such a great
20:46
I love the metaphor because you can
20:47
everybody can picture their this load of
20:49
stuff they gathered in their brain yeah
20:51
up into that moment when they got to go
20:53
to bed and then you're just basically
20:54
seating the mind for the next day yeah
20:56
that's exactly right and oftentimes what
20:58
I'll do and I picked this up from one of
21:00
the neuroscientists I interviewed for
21:02
the book
21:02
oftentimes what I'll do if I have a
21:04
burning question I'll ask myself that
21:08
before I go to bed and I'll leave it on
21:09
paper next to the bed like an intention
21:12
or like an intention like so I had this
21:14
keynote for Deutsche Telekom's
21:16
big kick-off two weeks ago and and this
21:20
huge speech thousand people and I wanted
21:23
the I wanted the opening message to be
21:25
really strong and really engaging and
21:28
get through
21:28
tension and so it actually took two
21:31
nights before you know I said how am I
21:33
going to open the speech I just asked
21:35
myself that before I went to bed how
21:36
should I open the speech and and on the
21:39
second night you know woke up with this
21:41
great idea and it was a story I wanted
21:43
to tell and I want to share at some
21:45
point but I thought wow if I open up
21:46
with this yeah this is gonna be really
21:48
powerful but because the ending is so
21:50
surprising and no one will guess it and
21:52
and you know I can do that so that's how
21:53
I ended up you know coming up with the
21:55
way that I was gonna open up this really
21:57
important speech and you can do it for
21:58
anything you know so one of the things I
22:00
thought was really interesting about
22:02
your story and again I have a little
22:03
advantage because I know your back story
22:05
a little bit although you do talk about
22:07
it quite a bit in the book is your
22:08
athletic background and I find that
22:11
interesting because there's there's
22:14
people listening here who are like I was
22:16
a good athlete in the past yeah and you
22:18
know I've left it all behind for
22:20
whatever reason you know works kids and
22:22
all that and then and then you have this
22:24
talking about courage and and and such
22:26
and I I have just just realized this
22:29
over the past like two years that
22:31
there's a massive difference between
22:33
physical courage and bravery like I
22:36
remember I signed up for the Ironman we
22:38
all remember you you know and I remember
22:40
when I gave him the $600 yeah like I'm
22:42
like what did I just do and but that
22:44
took I I knew physically that that was
22:46
gonna be a hard thing but it would took
22:48
a different type of a gear but then when
22:50
I'm operating redzone yeah the the
22:53
courage this is psychological oh
22:55
absolutely
22:56
you know it's mental so we've got three
22:58
different type of fears and I talked
23:01
about them in the book and I call it the
23:02
terror triangle so if you if you can
23:04
imagine a triangle and on each side of
23:07
the triangle one side you've got
23:08
physical courage the other side you've
23:11
got emotional courage and then down at
23:13
the bottom you have instinctual courage
23:15
and so excuse me that's where if you can
23:18
imagine all your fears living it's some
23:21
place within that triangle so if it's
23:24
jumping out of an airplane yeah it's
23:26
gonna be directly against the physical
23:27
side right because the physical fear is
23:30
falling and that's it if it's getting
23:32
married or you know leaving the military
23:35
because you've been a Navy SEAL for 15
23:39
years or
23:40
you know if it's leaving being a CEO to
23:43
start a photography company whatever it
23:46
might be that's those are all emotional
23:48
pains if it's go back to Ireland fear of
23:50
snakes
23:51
that's instinctual so everywhere you
23:53
have is someplace on inside that
23:55
triangle and the interesting thing I'll
23:58
go back to the Navy SEALs because I've
24:00
worked with a bunch of them is they are
24:02
the most courageous guys when it comes
24:04
to physical right they can jump out of a
24:06
plane at 30,000 feet in the pitch-black
24:08
over a stormy ocean and not think twice
24:10
about you'd be telling jokes as they go
24:12
out the back of the c-130 now a lot of
24:15
seals that I've worked with have been
24:17
married three times
24:18
four times right because they don't have
24:21
the emotional training to understand
24:24
that that's just a few that's a fear
24:25
response they have to train as well so
24:27
with each one of those legs of the
24:30
triangle you've got to train them so
24:32
it's no different and and the fears are
24:35
no different so when people are physical
24:37
physically courage courageous sorry that
24:39
that means they've worked on being
24:41
physically courageous so if you want to
24:43
be emotionally courageous you've got to
24:45
be vulnerable and that's really tough I
24:47
used to build up the the old new me that
24:50
you knew before leukemia I built up this
24:53
you know this facade first it was an
24:55
athlete right and then it was a
24:56
entrepreneur driving 150 thousand dollar
24:59
car we're in you know twenty thousand
25:01
dollar suits and and I was running you
25:03
know a ten million dollar company and
25:05
thinking I was Gordon Gekko so it was
25:08
all - to hide the shame that I felt
25:10
about fear when I got leukemia and I
25:13
ended up getting out of hospital and
25:14
recovering I went into the office a
25:16
whole totally different guy after my
25:18
immune system was back and I said - you
25:21
know we had 30 employees at the time and
25:23
I said look we you know we're screwed
25:26
we you know we lost that contract I've
25:28
been out of the scene for for you know a
25:30
couple months and and we might we might
25:33
not make it and everyone's looking at me
25:35
saying who the hell is this guy you know
25:36
what happened - I'll take care of it you
25:38
know this is nothing for me yeah because
25:40
I I was emotionally much more courageous
25:43
I was telling them the truth I didn't
25:45
bother like yeah much more vulnerable
25:47
percent so I I you and I lost touch
25:50
after the Olympic Trials and we have
25:53
talked about that and you can weave that
25:55
in as we go maybe it's just enough to
25:56
say you know well it's the second
25:58
breathing I'll point that out because
25:59
you're asked about the breathing that's
26:01
that's in Chapter six it's a great
26:04
section for athletes and and for for
26:07
entrepreneurs about a breathing
26:09
technique and a mind
26:11
not really mindfulness more a
26:12
visualization technique I learned at the
26:15
Olympic Trials and and it's really
26:17
powerful so I'd like talking about this
26:20
concept of intrapreneurs
26:21
yeah internal and I believe a lot of the
26:23
CIOs for them to reach high performance
26:25
levels in their business they got to
26:27
come off left less on defense and more
26:29
on offense yeah and that's that
26:30
intrapreneurship which is you know the
26:32
whole nother skill set but but back to
26:35
your your point about that we were just
26:37
talking about with the breathing yes the
26:43
the breathing right the as your so the
26:48
practical ability to breathe and just
26:51
something that people can use day in and
26:52
day out is like what's the Gateway to
26:55
settle because you had this facade right
26:57
yeah and then you in you you got sick
26:59
and you and you had this like
27:00
vulnerability but you were already
27:02
pretty high performance before that but
27:04
you're saying that we some of us are
27:07
reaching levels but we got to look
27:08
behind the curtain a little bit and just
27:09
say you know what is it that I'm hiding
27:13
from yeah and it and that will you know
27:15
I tell people all your dreams are on the
27:17
other side of fear but you have to you
27:19
have to run towards that fear and the
27:21
reason so you know I got second in the
27:24
Olympic Trials and race the World Cup
27:25
for three years my first company raised
27:28
about 30 million dollars in venture
27:30
capital and debt and we sold it and
27:32
venture capitalists made all the money
27:33
so I if I knew what I knew then what I
27:38
know now about courage and confidence
27:40
and and working in the face of fear I
27:43
would have been an Olympic gold medalist
27:45
and probably be a billionaire right
27:46
because my motivation and my methods
27:50
were all wrong I had this tremendous
27:52
potential like yeah thank God for my
27:54
parents because they had good genetics
27:55
and good coaching but because my
27:58
motivation was wrong or let's say you
28:02
know it wasn't wasn't optimal put it
28:04
that way
28:04
when I when I got it Hopkins
28:06
and I was told that the odds were I
28:09
wouldn't get out right they asked if my
28:12
affairs were in order you know my
28:15
daughter was a year old
28:16
my wife was six months pregnant and so I
28:19
sat there in Hopkins thinking memory
28:22
shannon is gonna have her dad is the guy
28:25
who's too big of a to get on a
28:27
plane and take her to Disney World
28:29
or take her to Paris or take her
28:30
anywhere in the world because he's he's
28:33
so cowardice
28:35
he's so cowardly and he doesn't have the
28:38
he doesn't have the wherewithal to get
28:40
over his own fears and to face those
28:42
fears so when I got out that became a
28:45
motivation and I don't know anyone
28:47
listening to this podcast who wouldn't
28:49
run into a burning building you know
28:51
you'd run into a burning building to
28:53
save your kid yeah so if every day
28:55
becomes your burning building if you've
28:57
got a chance to make a decision based on
28:59
fear or based on opportunity and you
29:02
feel that change in your body then you
29:04
say okay that's my early warning system
29:06
not not for a survival anymore
29:08
that's my early warning system for
29:10
opportunity now if I decide my burning
29:13
building might be standing up telling
29:15
the CEO I got a much better idea I got
29:18
something that's risky that I want to
29:20
try and it's putting myself on the line
29:22
but that's where the opportunity lies
29:24
and my little girl wants me to take that
29:28
opportunity and I want to do it for her
29:29
now now you've got the motivation you've
29:31
got the recognition of when that happens
29:34
because you've got this incredible early
29:35
warning system right and and now you can
29:37
run towards that fear knowing the
29:40
opportunity and your dreams are on the
29:41
other side of it and and for you the for
29:45
you discovering the shame around
29:48
essentially what you even though you've
29:51
been who you were quite successful the
29:53
the the the the the saint you're
29:56
essentially using the motivation of that
29:58
that shame and fear to create your
30:00
acceleration yeah versus being aware
30:02
that this was there and it creates
30:04
you're saying that creates a different
30:05
type of acceleration much more powerful
30:08
such a faster acceleration if you've got
30:11
that authentic courage okay if you're
30:14
constantly trying to hide your shame and
30:17
constantly trying to hide your fear and
30:19
trying
30:20
create your persona people make the
30:22
mistake bill all the time of thinking
30:24
well I'll act great sorry I'll think and
30:29
I'll tell myself and I'll use positive
30:31
motivation to tell myself I'm gonna be
30:35
courageous
30:36
then I'll act courageous it's the other
30:38
way around they've got it all wrong
30:39
you have to act courageous to feel
30:42
courageous right you can't feel it and
30:44
say okay now I'll act that way you've
30:46
just got to do it and it's gonna feel
30:48
horrible yeah right it'll feel so
30:50
foreign if you're the type of guy like
30:52
me who is trying to cover things up and
30:54
act the heart and when you actually when
30:57
you actually don't feel it right so so
31:01
that's the first step and I think that's
31:04
the big difference in motivation between
31:06
you know when you've got this self
31:07
motivation you're trying to create a
31:09
persona versus when you're being the
31:11
authentic you and you're doing things
31:13
for the right reason
31:14
so what happened when you when you told
31:15
that story to the 30 employees and you
31:17
came in what what it was incredible
31:20
really yeah I mean I was shocked because
31:22
they a couple guys came up and they said
31:24
well you know that contract we just lost
31:26
we know the we know the prime contractor
31:29
they'll probably want some help why
31:30
don't I call them up and see if we can
31:31
get a couple guys on that deal someone
31:33
else said well you know what there's
31:35
this other thing and and rather than you
31:38
know me having a shoulder that whole
31:40
burden myself all of a sudden everyone's
31:43
saying hey we can we can fix this sure
31:44
we can we can jump in and and it just
31:47
became such a better work environment
31:49
right because we started being way more
31:52
transparent with each other or I started
31:54
being more transparent with everybody
31:55
else and and consequently they became
31:58
more transparent with me did the bravery
32:00
we talked about fearlessness did the or
32:02
did your experience at Hopkins with the
32:04
leukemia did that that did that make you
32:06
fear less or to make you more brave
32:09
definitely definitely bravery and
32:11
courage and the distinction I draw there
32:14
bill is that that old me died at Hopkins
32:18
right that part that was trying to try
32:20
and to create the image and you know
32:22
trying to be the bravado tough guy that
32:26
died at Hopkins and the the real me
32:28
emerged and what I found was and
32:33
in near-death experiences oftentimes
32:35
reprogram people's mind when they go
32:37
through you'll hear a lot of cancer
32:38
survivors say it was the best thing that
32:39
ever happened to me and and because
32:42
their mind got reprogrammed okay the
32:44
good news is after interviewing 36
32:46
neuroscientists we don't have to go
32:48
through that near-death experience to
32:49
reprogram your mind you can use the the
32:51
base platform I lay out in the book
32:53
which is all based on neuroscience and
32:55
and basically what you're doing is
32:58
you're able to say when I'm fearful I
33:01
feel it I know it I'm gonna face that
33:03
fear I'm gonna I'm gonna run towards it
33:05
and that's what courage is so courage is
33:08
like Sully Sullenberger right the guy
33:11
who landed the jet on the Hudson River
33:13
with no engines right so he's he is in a
33:17
state of abject panic right he's got 200
33:19
people behind him he's over New York
33:21
City and his engines go out you can't be
33:24
any more scared than that but he had
33:26
such courage that he said okay I'm gonna
33:28
go through my checklist I've been
33:30
trained to do this I'm gonna take that
33:32
fear I'm gonna put it in compartment get
33:34
it out of the way right now because it's
33:35
not serving me and I'm gonna do exactly
33:37
what I need to do to get out of this
33:38
situation that's that's bravery right
33:41
that's that's courage
33:43
I don't want fearlessness because
33:45
fearlessness to me is is just being used
33:48
to something it's habitual it's yeah
33:51
it's numb right so so if you've done
33:53
something if you've jumped out of a
33:55
plane a thousand times when you go up
33:56
there and you jump out a thousand and
33:58
one times it's your heart rates probably
34:00
the same as it was you know at nine nine
34:02
hundred ninety nine and it's kind of
34:04
ho-hum you've lost that that fear of it
34:07
so so fearlessness
34:09
I think people say that and they use it
34:11
incorrectly what I want is bravery when
34:14
I want is courage what I want is
34:15
confidence and that's I think that's way
34:18
more valuable so the when people come to
34:20
you and say what can I do now like what
34:23
the the book is an amazing resource and
34:27
and are you often asked to say is there
34:30
some practical things that I can take
34:31
home and test on myself today and you
34:35
know and I'm being like really really
34:38
really practical about like you have a
34:40
leader who has to execute on this
34:43
project but has to have like three hard
34:45
conversations yeah
34:46
they got to have it not like four weeks
34:48
from now they got to have it within a
34:49
week yeah or two weeks sure and is there
34:52
like like how would you coach them to
34:55
get through to the get to the to the
34:57
other side of that where they can have
34:58
those and be brave and be courageous and
35:00
be a leader during that process I think
35:01
there's two important things to go
35:03
through long-term one is trying to
35:05
discover your fear tells those things I
35:07
said you should scare yourself about the
35:09
second is trying to find your hidden
35:10
fears and your fear frontier because
35:13
there's a dark side or as I say in the
35:15
book there's a shadow side to those
35:16
those are a little bit longer and and
35:19
take a while to explain and to walk
35:21
through and I I do that occasionally
35:23
with some CEOs and have had some just
35:25
incredible results and and super
35:27
breakthroughs that that are just
35:29
skyrocketing people over the next level
35:31
because they figured out their hidden
35:33
fears and what their defenses are
35:34
against him to answer your question more
35:37
specifically if you have something
35:38
you've got to deal with in the next week
35:39
the best thing I think you can do is
35:42
what the Stoics call premeditation of
35:44
evil I love that yes so if you can if
35:47
you can sit down do some four-by-fours
35:49
so the breathing is always the key
35:51
anytime you feel yourself activated do
35:53
those four by fours even if you don't
35:55
feel yourself activated like at night or
35:57
when you wake up in the morning doing a
35:59
few four by fours just gets you used to
36:01
focusing on your breathing and brings
36:03
your attention inward yeah it's super
36:05
easy practice and when you do if you sit
36:08
there and you think about what you have
36:10
to do that you've got trepidation about
36:11
what's really important I want you to
36:14
see yourself doing it see it going great
36:16
a lot of people say you know visualize
36:18
yourself winning and everything else
36:19
that's perfect do that do that the first
36:21
time maybe the first couple of times but
36:23
then I want you to see yourself going
36:25
sideways and things go on the worst
36:27
possible way you can imagine it and see
36:30
yourself having that conversation with
36:31
your CEO and him throwing a you know a
36:34
pen holder across the desk at you
36:36
screaming at you ask him worst we could
36:38
have hired an idiot and you know yeah
36:40
think of the worst outcome possible then
36:43
think of how you've responded to it and
36:44
what you're doing from a neuroscience
36:47
perspective is you're putting in prior
36:49
beliefs into your subconscious database
36:51
right so when you get to your boss or
36:54
whoever you have to have that tough
36:55
conversation with now you have all these
36:58
prior beliefs of let's say 10 different
37:00
things that you envisioned happening
37:02
yeah from really good to really bad
37:05
none of them are gonna come as a
37:06
surprise so it's our brain is a
37:09
prediction engine right we try we try to
37:11
figure out how this event that we're in
37:13
right now is going to turn out the way
37:15
we figure it out is based on our past
37:18
history or our prior beliefs so we'll
37:20
use those to predict the outcome of this
37:22
moment so if all of a sudden you hadn't
37:25
done that visualization and your boss
37:27
flips out and throws that pen thing at
37:29
you you don't have you don't have a
37:31
prior belief that aligns with it this is
37:33
why the coronaviruses yes scaring so
37:36
many people there is no prior beliefs
37:38
that say what's going to happen with
37:40
this virus
37:40
so there's uncertainty there's
37:43
uncertainty we create something called
37:44
free energy and that free energy is the
37:47
root of all fear so if you've thought
37:49
through all the possible scenarios when
37:51
you go talk to in the person you have to
37:54
talk to and they throw the the thing
37:56
across what you'll find yourself doing
37:58
is just what you're doing now bill you
37:59
say yeah I saw this coming
38:01
let me get you to sit down I just want
38:03
to say something again cuz I think I
38:05
spoke wrong so just let's take a seat
38:07
let me explain it and you're not
38:09
flustered and you're not thinking what
38:11
the what the hell you doing throw that
38:12
out yeah right you know and it
38:14
becomes a much more manageable and
38:17
you're using both hemispheres your brain
38:18
at the same time so you're crafting that
38:20
you're crafting the neural the the
38:22
neural response well ahead of time
38:24
you're getting out you're getting out in
38:26
front of it exactly you're you're
38:28
getting out in front of it with your
38:29
prefrontal cortex with the adult
38:31
supervision with the SG ACC with that
38:33
courage Center you're not letting the
38:35
amygdala hijack like you were saying
38:36
because if you didn't do that and things
38:39
went sideways the amygdala is gonna say
38:41
okay we're in a threat here our default
38:43
is to defense yeah right so we've got to
38:46
stop that default to defense and we've
38:48
got to find all the potential in the
38:50
present and most people can visual and
38:52
there's a whole part of this on
38:53
visualization and and you have a whole
38:55
process of working people through that
38:57
are people generally I'm very visual are
38:59
people generally able to light up their
39:01
brain with a visual imagining themselves
39:04
in the situation and the feelings they
39:06
get yeah I would say probably 80% of the
39:09
population is really able to lean in and
39:12
do that
39:13
people tend to be either auditory you
39:15
know users or kinesthetic which is we
39:17
talk about neural linguistic programming
39:19
and and things like that so but I would
39:22
say probably 80% of the population can
39:24
get the visualization the the truth is
39:26
how your brain is wired we've got
39:29
something called neuroplasticity which
39:30
means the brain can change at any age we
39:33
used to think just up until in a 15
39:35
years ago that at age 20 it was fully
39:37
developed but the truth of the matter is
39:39
it changes over time so we can we can
39:43
become more visual if we want to if we
39:45
practice being visual if we practice
39:47
visualization it'll have more and bigger
39:50
impact on us for sure a lot of the older
39:52
folks let's say 45 plus that are
39:54
listening so they have a lot of the
39:56
young bucks coming up that you know it's
39:59
just a different brain I imagine there's
40:01
a different brain in the 20s and 30s and
40:03
with from a leader perspective you know
40:06
you have this deep well of experience
40:08
around you so technically I guess you
40:10
could be called wise but wise can get in
40:14
the way at times because you have this
40:15
prior experience yeah so do you have
40:18
like a how do you how do you make
40:21
someone actually wise yeah and so
40:23
they're not like layering their past
40:25
beliefs into something sure because
40:27
that's one of the advantages folks that
40:28
are younger halves they don't have the
40:30
trauma of getting yelled at by four or
40:32
five bosses well they do have the trauma
40:34
from from back in their youth and and
40:36
that's really important they have their
40:38
fear frontier they have their defense
40:40
mechanisms and Millennials particularly
40:42
have had I think a disservice from their
40:46
parents right because parents became
40:48
affluent and they tried to protect them
40:49
so much that they've had to face a lot
40:52
less challenges than guys like you and I
40:55
did grown-up you know I was the first
40:56
person in my family to graduate college
40:59
and I had to pay for college myself and
41:01
pay for grad school and myself and so
41:02
had all these challenges and potentially
41:05
of not being able to pay the next
41:07
semester and you know was I gonna get
41:09
kicked out and all these type of things
41:11
whereas my kids for example they're you
41:14
know they're expecting to go to $70,000
41:17
a year college have dad kind of check
41:19
and not have to worry about anything so
41:20
it's a totally different mindset where
41:23
there's not a lot of threat there
41:25
not a lot of challenge that comes their
41:29
way compared to the older guys so the
41:31
older guys oftentimes have a great way
41:34
of looking at their life as something
41:37
that they created and one of the things
41:40
that that I found with the younger set
41:42
that prevails until they have those
41:44
bosses that are jerks and those
41:46
experiences that that make old guys wise
41:48
is that they tend to think of themselves
41:51
as victims and you can hear it in the
41:53
language that that they use if they say
41:56
you know god I would have been here on
41:57
time but the traffic was just awful in
42:00
that that client is really an asshole we
42:03
would have Buddakan we would have grown
42:05
this this contract if it wasn't for him
42:07
so that's a total victim mindset yeah
42:09
right when you're a victim I have this
42:11
thing that I call the drama triangle
42:13
from my friend Diana Chapman and when
42:16
your victim there's always a villain
42:18
right so somebody's always a villain
42:21
villain and to get yourself out of it
42:22
you know what you need know a hero here
42:26
alright so that's the drama triangle is
42:29
if you're a villain I mean if you're a
42:31
victim you got to have a villain so I'm
42:33
going to blame everything that goes
42:34
wrong on and then you've got to have a
42:36
hero someone who can come in and fix it
42:38
for you and so oftentimes you'll see
42:40
this in people who aren't successful at
42:43
work they'll say you know that that boss
42:44
is a jerk he keeps told me he keeps
42:46
giving me these bad assignments he keeps
42:48
doing this it's all his fault that means
42:51
life is happening too - yeah when that
42:54
happens if light is gonna happen by you
42:56
then you change from being a victim to
42:58
being a producer and that same boss
43:00
isn't a villain anymore he's a
43:02
challenger sure and now he's challenging
43:05
me to think well how could I have done
43:06
that better what could I do differently
43:08
what's he looking for
43:09
and then if you need help you don't get
43:12
a hero you've got a coach Yeah right
43:14
someone who's gonna say have you thought
43:15
about this have you thought about that
43:16
and it all comes down so going from that
43:18
drama triangle to that producer triangle
43:21
all comes down to curiosity so ok you
43:24
believe if you have a mindset that
43:26
everybody here put on this earth is here
43:29
so you can learn everyone is here so
43:31
bill Murphy can get better at what he
43:33
does the world is a very friendly place
43:36
and I know you're here to serve me
43:39
and and if you have that mindset you
43:41
might think well it's it's manifesting
43:43
itself and yelling screaming fit so how
43:46
do i how do i do better next time how do
43:48
I understand this how can I you know
43:50
make sure things don't work out and what
43:51
you'll see in in really successful
43:53
people and you mentioned CIOs I've got a
43:55
friend of mine who is the CIO of Capital
43:58
One for the first 15 years that they
44:00
were around Jim Donahey and and he was
44:03
the best at that he'd have the two guys
44:05
rich and Nigel the two founders of
44:07
Capital One's screaming at him about you
44:09
know the fact that he wanted to try
44:10
outsourcing this new this new storage
44:13
backup and then like we can't let this
44:15
go it's our you know it's all our credit
44:17
card information and you just sit there
44:18
like like Yoda right you know with it
44:21
without batting an eyelash and he'd be
44:23
thinking himself well why did I do a bad
44:25
job presenting it so these guys don't
44:27
understand what a good thing it was how
44:29
can I do better next time he turned
44:31
internal and said this is a great
44:33
challenge and and he became legendary in
44:35
terms of CIOs well that goes back to the
44:37
one of the first questions is well you
44:38
know what what do I like about this but
44:40
it's asking better questions yeah
44:43
well I look at you and you know as we as
44:45
we as we wrap up Patrick you know I look
44:47
at you as a I came up with this and I
44:49
stole it but it's like try Mentors it
44:52
always says you need a mentor but I look
44:55
at it a little bit differently and as I
44:57
get older it's would it pick being
45:01
selective about mentors and I and I talk
45:02
about this quite a bit with my CIO group
45:04
because it's we're reaching an age where
45:05
it's impossible to know everything it
45:07
used to be you know 15 20 20 but you
45:09
could actually be smart and know
45:10
everything but right now it's just too
45:11
fast it's feel like too much complexity
45:14
we need and so as you select mentors
45:16
I'll give you as a trifecta mentor you
45:18
know when you read it so okay I want to
45:21
learn business that's the biggest payoff
45:23
right yeah don't with the business - I
45:30
want the academics and do I want a blend
45:32
of both like success is and I might even
45:35
put in some of the the health
45:37
experiences you've had you know you look
45:39
at this from a continuum and from the as
45:42
one reads the book it's like okay well
45:43
this is not an academic exercise on
45:46
success there's the athletic success
45:48
that you've had and then there's the
45:50
business success and
45:51
and then there's the health that you've
45:53
been over - to navigate through and and
45:57
you look at it and then there's the
45:58
academics in the book of like what's the
46:00
real science behind this yeah and and so
46:03
some of it and I said look when you look
46:04
at this all together I just call it like
46:06
a trifecta mentor and that's why I think
46:08
you know reading the book and listening
46:10
to this podcast is super because it can
46:12
be like a voice you know that someone's
46:14
playing to kind of coach them up as
46:15
they're driving to work or whatever it
46:16
may be but do you ever have people come
46:18
to you and what is your thoughts on
46:21
mentors and and how people can
46:24
accelerate their progress in life by
46:27
surrounding themselves with people just
46:28
a little bit in front of them in areas
46:30
so I think you know one of the one of
46:33
the early mistakes I made and my first
46:35
company server vault was the the board
46:38
management because your board of
46:40
directors should be mentors and instead
46:44
I was so terrified with every board
46:46
meeting that we would literally spend a
46:49
week of time prepping for board meetings
46:51
doing a great board book putting
46:53
everything yet together trying to
46:55
anticipate every answer and that was
46:57
such a big mistake right because that
46:59
became me wasting a week yeah to to try
47:03
and look good again it was all about
47:04
this image to try and look good in front
47:06
of the board sure and and instead when I
47:09
got to Odin I bootstrap that company
47:11
instead of raising money for it and I
47:13
put together a killer board and we just
47:15
walk in and say this really sucks can't
47:18
do this I don't know why this failed and
47:20
I need help here and and it became much
47:24
more of I was looking actively for
47:29
criticism I'd say that's the that's the
47:31
biggest thing you can do from a mentor
47:33
is is try and find someone who will give
47:36
you critical feedback and and not you
47:39
know not feel bad about it and not take
47:41
it personally yeah not find someone
47:43
who's gonna sit around blow and sunshine
47:44
up your ass and make you feel good about
47:46
yourself but someone who'll give you
47:48
critical feedback who will say you know
47:51
this is this is where you could have
47:52
done better this is where you did well
47:54
and this is what you got to work on next
47:56
time and I think if you're going to get
47:58
a mentor relationship it's great to have
48:00
someone who'll give you a pat on the
48:01
back
48:02
every now and then but that's a lot less
48:04
valuable than someone who's going to
48:06
give you that real critical feedback and
48:08
then help you navigate how you can get
48:11
to a point where you know that that
48:13
doesn't become a weakness it's funny
48:15
that you're processing it but I just
48:16
formed a board as well and they make me
48:18
nervous yeah yeah yeah and it can be I
48:21
can I know with your thinking it can
48:23
take you out of sort of your brain
48:25
pattern or normal brain pattern because
48:26
you're you you these are high performers
48:28
and you want to do good you want to
48:29
present yourself well but you want that
48:31
feedback and it's like and I remember I
48:34
was interviewing for the board members
48:35
and one of them said son said to me well
48:38
here's what he goes well I would just
48:40
toss that back I said what if I had a
48:41
problem how would you approach that and
48:43
he goes I would just toss it back to you
48:44
and tell you to go figure it out and
48:45
this the guy is a board member of like
48:47
publicly traded companies and I get that
48:49
you know it was like they want the CEO
48:50
to figure it out but I was like you know
48:52
I need to collaborate
48:53
I need a collaborative person to work
48:55
with yes I want to feel uncomfortable
48:57
and to your point about comfort but I
48:59
don't to be so uncomfortable that that
49:01
I'm like you can't ask questions or you
49:05
know I come across as the CEO and it's a
49:07
40-person company for God's sake you
49:09
know this is we're not running a
49:10
multinational you know GE Capital or
49:13
something so it's I appreciate that that
49:15
that feedback because I think that's
49:16
maps to the vulnerability and some of
49:19
the small business owners that are
49:23
listening to this and I know you're
49:24
involved in YPO quite frequently and how
49:26
they surround themselves with people
49:28
that can help them solve problems and
49:30
and and and grow their businesses and
49:33
help employ people that was so I've been
49:35
in YPO for more than a dozen years and
49:38
when we when you join YPO young
49:41
presidents organization you get a you
49:45
get put in what's called a forum with
49:47
seven or eight other people and we just
49:49
had this amazing form of eight people so
49:52
six guys two women and of the eight of
49:56
us that started in this form six of us
49:58
now have different careers Wow because
50:00
we went we had a group of mentors a
50:03
group of peers who we could be totally
50:05
vulnerable with totally honest and tried
50:07
to figure out when we were in our genius
50:09
and and when we were you know
50:12
in in that zone of excellence which were
50:14
really good at we get paid a lot of
50:16
money for but it's really work the the
50:19
zone of genius which is where you want
50:20
to spend at least 80 percent of your
50:22
time is when you're in that flow state
50:24
when things come easily and you're
50:26
really good at it and you look at the
50:27
clock and you think holy cow three hours
50:29
just just flew by and I you know I
50:31
didn't even realize it and it's it's the
50:33
type of thing you do even if you had a
50:35
billion dollars in the bank and so
50:37
that's I think you know that's one of
50:39
the benefits that can come from a mentor
50:40
group or come from like your CIO group
50:42
when you when you're getting point out
50:44
beyond something like you know just what
50:47
a boss would give you or what you might
50:49
get 90 60 review it's gonna be
50:51
impossible for us to cover everything in
50:53
the book in one well yeah but I'm gonna
50:58
put it show notes for this fear is fuel
51:00
the surprising power to help you find
51:03
purpose passion and performance by
51:05
Patrick Sweeney so I'm thrilled to have
51:09
been one of the first to interview you
51:11
and I think the long tail on this is
51:12
going to be you're gonna be surprised
51:14
with the long tail on this I think it's
51:15
gonna it's as evergreen yeah I hope so
51:18
I think you know bill we were thrilled
51:20
that it sold out in the first printing
51:21
so the second one is due on Patty's Day
51:25
17 so I think so and and you know that
51:29
was really a work of passion it's been
51:31
it was six years of me just trying to
51:34
figure out a way to help other people
51:35
learn confidence and courage without
51:37
without having to go through a
51:38
near-death experience so anything that
51:40
we didn't cover or any point that you
51:43
wanted to make related to this or your
51:45
legacy or is anything that's bigger
51:48
vision that you wanted to share before
51:49
we wrap something maybe not a bigger
51:51
vision but something came to mind bill
51:53
when we were talking about CIOs and it
51:57
was it was just what what popped up for
51:59
me and that is that a lot of my friends
52:02
who were very successful technology guys
52:05
CIO CTOs and everything else never took
52:08
care of their bodies and and I always
52:11
think a sound mind in a sound body and
52:14
you know when I was before I got
52:16
leukemia I was drinking six diet cokes a
52:18
day you know we would go to
52:22
would go to McDonald's or subway or
52:24
whatever scarf down you know whatever we
52:26
could and I wasn't even you know I
52:29
wasn't I wasn't exercising other than
52:31
you know kind of hitting the gym in the
52:32
morning a little bit and then afterwards
52:35
you know when I got leukemia I'd to
52:36
change my diet and this is 15 years ago
52:39
I started doing something called the
52:42
makers diet which turns out now people
52:44
call a ketogenic diet
52:47
stop doing that
52:49
it started having meetings by walking
52:50
around the building you know just little
52:52
stuff you don't have to go do an Ironman
52:54
like you were saying but just the fact
52:56
that if you and there's great studies
52:59
there's one of the guys I interviewed
53:00
from Harvard John Rattay wrote a book
53:02
called spark and sparks
53:04
yeah and it's it's all about how
53:06
exercise and movement affect your brain
53:09
yeah and how it makes you smarter and if
53:11
you're a CTO and you're trying to think
53:13
innovatively go out and take a walk you
53:15
know get a you know get some exercise
53:17
but but take care of your body watch
53:18
your diet especially now you know with
53:20
the coronavirus coming around it's a
53:22
good opportunity for all of us to think
53:24
am i doing everything I can you
53:26
mentioned I do cold showers every
53:27
morning as part of my morning routine so
53:29
cold showers breathing some exercise you
53:32
know and and watching your diet so I'd
53:34
say that's a lot less beat it's a piece
53:36
of advice that came up I'm so glad you
53:37
brought that up that's um yeah I mean
53:39
it's you got to have a sound we're table
53:41
all about the body being aware and and
53:43
and I love that a great way to end thank
53:47
you for coming bill thanks for yeah it's
53:48
great to catch up brother all right